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UPDATED: Robber Shot Dead in Little Five Points

LITTLE FIVE POINTS — A man attempting to rob a group of people waiting in line to purchase a new shoe line at the Wish Atlanta Boutique was shot dead early Saturday morning by one of the would-be victims, Atlanta police said.

The shooting, which occurred just before 5:30 a.m. at 447 Moreland Ave., appears to be self-defense and no charges have been filed, though the investigation is ongoing.

“The suspect produced a firearm and attempted to rob the group,” police spokesman John Chafee said in a statement.

“One of the victims pulled his own handgun and shot the suspect.”

 Police, who were still interviewing witnesses, had the stretch of Moreland from the U.S. Post Office to the Bombay Cuisine restaurant cordoned off, mid-morning Saturday.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that the people in line "may have been waiting to buy the latest LeBron James-inspired sneaker, The $180 Nike LeBron X EXT, which was released today."

One Patch reader shot 3 minutes and 46 seconds of video on the street after the shooting. To see it, go to YouTube.


Stephen W. Ramsden June 22, 2013 at 10:04 AM
If anyone is interested I shot several pictures and HD video of this right after it happened from the Starbucks... https://www.facebook.com/stephenramsden youtube HD video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8fqvgwwZs&feature=share
Péralte Paul (Editor) June 22, 2013 at 10:17 AM
Thanks, Stephen.
Stephen W. Ramsden June 22, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Apparently, Mr. Paul here at Patch scooped every single news outlet in town with this. Early bird catches the worm, eh?
Péralte Paul (Editor) June 22, 2013 at 10:21 AM
That and a friend who called me to give me the heads up after it happened.
Todd Johnson June 22, 2013 at 03:06 PM
Likely scooped AJC because the JC wanted extra time to write up a good anti-handgun spin into the story.
Jeffrey Landers June 22, 2013 at 04:02 PM
Correction: Likely scooped AJC because AJC didn't know where ITP this was!
Sophist June 23, 2013 at 01:24 AM
Good guy in the line, we need more like you.
Stephen W. Ramsden June 23, 2013 at 08:47 AM
I understand your view on this but it is never good when someone loses their life in such a stupid and worthless situation. Robber or not.
jeff June 23, 2013 at 09:27 AM
Stephen I agree a loss of life is bad, but at least the right person died. I bet this isn't the first crime the robber has committed, but thankfully it was his last and he can't hurt anyone again.
Stephen W. Ramsden June 23, 2013 at 09:31 AM
agreed. I just wish I could have gotten to the perp about 15 years ago and taught him some science.....:) I know, Im a liberal,,,
jeff June 23, 2013 at 09:39 AM
It's a struggle for you isn't it? ;) On one hand you don't like guns, but on the other you see they are necessary.
Stephen W. Ramsden June 23, 2013 at 09:50 AM
not at all, as a retired veteran. I just wish that the slightest of conflicts weren't immediately resolved using lethal force to erase someone's life in our city. The video of the actual shooting here shows over 20 young men, several armed, in line and one guy running away from the scene. What prompted the decision to end this guys life with a gun rather than just grabbing him and kicking his azz? He was running away and not a threat to anyone. What happened to the good ole southern azz whoopin that taught me so much when I was a kid without taking my life?
jeff June 23, 2013 at 10:15 AM
Thanks for your service, but you should know as well as anyone that when someone is firing a gun it's hard to whip their azz. According to an eyewitness on WSB he fired his gun first, that's the reason the good guy wasn't charged. Also when you were a kid not every kid was armed. Where are they getting them, car break-ins and burglaries. We'll probably never know it, but I bet the bad guy's gun is stolen.
Jake Johnson June 23, 2013 at 10:42 AM
I don't see how there's evidence against gun control here--most gun control advocates just want universal background checks and stricter requirements for licensing. The person who shot the robber would still have had his gun, presumably.
jeff June 23, 2013 at 10:51 AM
Jake I don't see any evidence of gun control here either, I was just trying to understand where Stephen was coming from. But your thought stands out....the robber will never ever get a license to carry and he will not go through a background check to get his gun. Gun control never affects criminals, it only controls the law abiding citizens.
Jake Johnson June 23, 2013 at 03:08 PM
Jeff--You misunderstood what I was saying, which was that this shooting does not justify minimal controls. With universal background checks and licensing, the person who shot the robber would have still been able to carry a gun. I don not find the claim that "Gun control never affects criminals" persuasive. According to more than one source, background checks have resulted in many arrests of criminals and have prevented people with a history of mental illness from obtaining weapons. Here is data from Virginia: http://hamptonroads.com/2013/02/stats-show-virginia-gun-background-checks-effective Here is a report on the FBI's findings nationally: http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/trace/nics.shtml Sorry, but according to the evidence, gun control laws DO prevent criminals and the mentally ill from getting guns, while less than 1% of the total number of applications were denied. I have read the claim that some cities, such as Chicago, have strict gun control laws, but high gun related crime. The problem is just that guns can be purchased outside of the city and then brought in. That is an argument for more strict controls nationwide. Can criminals still steal guns? Of course, just as they can steal cars, but that does not mean that people should be able to own a car without a license.
T Russ June 23, 2013 at 05:21 PM
You don't have to have a license to OWN a car...you only have to have a license to DRIVE a car. You can own a car prior to having your license. Besides, why shouldn't people BE ABLE to own a car without a license? Enjoy a bit too much NANNY state government over reach?
jeff June 23, 2013 at 09:07 PM
Jake we could argue about the effects of gun control til the cows come home. In 2010 out of 80,000 background checks denied only 44 were deemed worthy of prosecution. http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2013/mar/22/kelly-ayotte/most-people-trying-buy-gun-illegally-us-senator-ke/ NICS costs millions a year(approx $30-$35 per check) that money could be better spent putting more police on the street or offering free safety courses. The real criminals don't go through the system to get their guns, never will. On Chicago's strict gun control. Why do they have higher crime there than say Atlanta? I mean folks around Atlanta have more access to guns, if we follow your argument. If Atlanta had the same gun controls that Chicago does the robber in this news story would still be alive and possibly some good person dead. Or if a good guy had fought back he would be in jail facing several charges and at least a felony. So tell me why more gun control is good...how?
jeff June 23, 2013 at 09:24 PM
Jake we could argue about the effects of gun control til the cows come home. In 2010 out of 80,000 background checks denied only 44 were deemed worthy of prosecution. http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2013/mar/22/kelly-ayotte/most-people-trying-buy-gun-illegally-us-senator-ke/ NICS costs millions a year(approx $30-$35 per check) that money could be better spent putting more police on the street or offering free safety courses. The real criminals don't go through the system to get their guns, never will. On Chicago's strict gun control. Why do they have higher crime there than say Atlanta? I mean folks around Atlanta have more access to guns, if we follow your argument. If Atlanta had the same gun controls that Chicago does the robber in this news story would still be alive and possibly some good person dead. Or if a good guy had fought back he would be in jail facing several charges and at least a felony. So tell me why more gun control is good...how?
Sophist June 23, 2013 at 11:58 PM
Jake, Let's say you manage to legalize a UK style ban on guns here in the US. Guns will simply be included with the shipments of cocaine and marijuana coming over our borders by the ton for the benefit of the black market. The problem is guns are ubiquitous, just like drugs and alcohol. A world without guns is a complete farce just like a world without alcohol and drugs. We tried alcohol prohibition once, and it didn't turn out so well. We didn't learn any lessons from history and are continuing another prohibition under the so-called War on Drugs which, not surprisingly, isn't working out so well for us either. A prohibition on guns would follow the same vein of prohibitionist failures of the past and present. For one to believe a ban on guns would be successful, one would have to delude themselves into believing the War on Drugs is successful. To address your plea for expanded background checks. Most criminals obtain guns by theft or smuggling. They do not walk into police stations and request background checks so they can feel better about possessing the guns they have smuggled or stolen. The only people submitting to the background checks are people with clean records to start, which includes people like James Holmes and Adam Lanza. So, I'm not really convinced background checks are really all that effective at preventing crime unless they add in a mental health screening component. Yes, there were several proposed bills recently in the Senate that included adding mental health screening, but they also tacked-on magazine and gun bans which do nothing but empower the black market for the benefit of criminals. Lastly, let's look at Norway's Anders Behring Breivik. Guns in Norway are highly regulated, more so than even New York. Breivik made Adam Lanza look like an amateur by managing to kill 77 children with super-duper, highly banned weapons and magazines. People intent on killing are going to obtain the means necessary even under European style weapon prohibitions. The only way to combat an active shooter is to take them out with a gun. The only way to stop an armed robber is to have armed victims just like what happened in L5P.
Jake Johnson June 24, 2013 at 02:19 AM
The person who shot the robber would still have been able to carry his gun, even with stricter background check laws and licensing requirements. That's why I said that I don't see how the subject of gun control even enters the picture here. I understand that your argument is logical, but according to those links that I pasted in, the evidence demonstrates that background checks are to a degree effective. I'm not saying that extended checks will prevent all criminals from getting a gun. But according to a large number of mayors and the FBI, they prevent some criminals from getting guns and lead to arrests. Yes, in Norway, one person stockpiled guns and shot children, despite strict gun regulations. But on an annual basis, gun violence is rare in Norway. And even with the regulations, there was no law against someone on the island, a guard, carrying a gun to protect the kids. I would blame a lack of security there, although I doubt that a guard with a gun could have done much good against someone armed to the teeth. There are going to be crazed people who want kill people. I can't see that letting them have easy access to guns is the solution.
Sonya June 24, 2013 at 12:36 PM
Is it true that the guy was running in the opposite direction when he was shot and killed?
jeff June 24, 2013 at 01:21 PM
The dead robber had an extensive violent record and that's just in Fulton county: http://inmates.fultonsheriff.net/PublicBookings_list.asp?simpleSrchTypeComboNot=&a=integrated&id=1&criteria=and&type1=&value11=ezzard&field1=LName&option1=Contains&not1=&type2=&value21=sandy&field2=FName&option2=Contains&not2=
jeff June 24, 2013 at 01:35 PM
Jake I posted something last night but it's not here and I had links. On Background checks in 2010 80,000 were denied, but only 44 were deemed bad guys worth prosecuting. These checks cost appox $30-$35 each, that's a lot of money to stop 44 bad guys, wouldn't those resources be better spent putting more police on the street? On Chicago's crime being because other places don't have strict laws so the criminals just go to those places and get their guns. Then why in those other places(insert any large city, say like Atlanta) are crime numbers and murders way way lower. And in this case if Atlanta had the laws that Chicago has, then the only person carrying a gun would have been the bad guy, and based on his record someone could have gotten hurt or killed. Of course another otherwise lawful person could have had a gun but under Chicago like laws he would be arrested and charged with a felony had he used it.
jeff June 24, 2013 at 01:39 PM
Sonya according to an eyewitness on WSB the bad guy fired first. He does appear to be running, but maybe he was seeking cover to return fire, I don't know I wasn't there. But the police had at least 25 eyewitnesses and they told the police the guy was in the right, and the police agreed.
jeff June 24, 2013 at 02:06 PM
The robber had been in the state pen twice for a total of three years on the charges I posted above, from Fulton County.
O.T. June 24, 2013 at 06:57 PM
Why should we fear robbers. They should fear us. Those jewelry thieves at Lenox probably would not have attempted that robbery either if they knew there was a good chance they would get shot and killed. DeKalb and Fulton are dangerous places to live because the judges in those jurisdictions refuse to jail people and more often than not, choose to impose probation instead. This guy had a violent history, multiple convictions and he was still on the streets. The guy who shot him deserves a medal. Probably saved someones life down the road.

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