Listening to the comments, perhaps there is a need to lower the speed limit to 15 mph in that direct area until the bridge is built, and then have APD actually enforce the limit. Banning the buses seems an extreme answer to something that could be easily solved with a less intrusive fix.

Kudos to the neighbor willing to help with the fundraising for a new bridge. Perhaps she can also work with the attorney to get the red tape cleared so the new bridge can be built.

It seems there are also problems with garbage trucks and ambulances, which could be somewhat fixed if the the neighbors agreed to a garbage pick-up point somewhere in the far perimeter of the neighborhood.

Just think: if the neighbors had acted benevolently, the Center wouldn't have had to spend $65k on legal fees and would already have the money to build the new bridge, once the zoning is in place. The problem would have been easily solved. Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face!

The Frazer Center is not located in the city of Atlanta, so no Mary Lin. It is in unincorporated Dekalb County on 22 acres. The property is owned by the CRC, not the center. The undeveloped parcels in the city of Atlanta can be developed with or without the Frazer Center as a tenant, under it's current zoning of R-4 zoning (about 17 acres). They operate an inclusive daycare, which includes 36% of "at risk" kids, and between 98 and 60 adults with disabilities, depending on the stat that is published. No one is denying that this is a wonderful and needed service, only that maintaining the infrastructure of institution and doing good work are not mutually exclusive, and provides a safer community for everyone, including the clients they serve. As for the events center, It started in 1998, it is licensed as a wedding events center, though is often used for other kinds of events. It is not zoned for it's current use, even as a wedding events center. Until 3 years ago, the events center did not allow amplified events, only things like harp music. Three years ago, again without any input from anyone, they started blasting amplified music and doubling the bookings. Outdoor amplified music is not allowed of any other commercial business in Dekalb.

The funds from the events go towards supporting the school. They do have a portion of the daycare which is open to everyone. Again, it is my understanding the daycare funds from those parents help with the operation of the overall program. Regarding blasting of music and amplified events, sound requirements should be the same as you have in your neighborhood for if your neighbor was playing loud music which I believe is after 10pm. The event location is also much further away than any neighbor would be that is close to you. The amplified events you are referring to are typically the speakers that a wedding DJ may bring with them, which are not like a rock concert speakers, and should be able to play at a lower volume but of course you are going to hear them as they are outside. Regardless, is your concern safety or noise? Or is this petition just a round about way of you getting what you want by saying it is a safety and traffic issue but in reality you don't like the noise which current noise ordinances should already address? Also, I believe I have seen speakers that are outside of many restaurants and other venues in Dekalb county commercial districts that play loud music. I would say that is no different, especially since there are condos that are nearby those locations.

The Dekalb County single family noise ordinance is any amount of noise is allowed between 7am and 11pm. This is the ordinance the center follows. The Dekalb commercial noise ordinance limits noise to 63 decibels in mixed use, about the level of a conversation. This is an issue that is being addressed through their rezoning, since they are not zoned to have an events center. I do not live near the gardens. I have just spent many, many hours talking with the center board and director trying to work through solutions, and this is another issue they have with neighbors who live close to the gardens, who are far fewer in number than those who are impacted by the traffic safety on Ridgewood. The center will make less than $40K of the gardens this year after direct expenses, and much less than if you included the other cost, such as officing, benefits, computers and phones for dedicated staff, management time, ect. Their total budget is roughly $4.5M, so this is not a significant source of funds.

There is no easy fix to this situation. One of the groups here will win and one wil lose as I don't think there is enough to negotiate with. There really isn't an effective way to get into the FC without going through a residential neighborhood. I suppose the buses could park on N Ponce and then the FC could use the club cars to shuttle the adults that attend the center. Even if the proposal to limit busses on Ridgewood passes, this will not likely change the traffic patterns that much as the parents are likely to still use Ridgewood to drop off the kids. If they posted signs prohibiting entry to the parking lot from Ridgewood, we would probably just park on Ridgewood and walk our kids in. This saves us a lot more mileage and gas and is safer than driving all the way around the center to enter on Ponce. I am notorious for driving very slowly and carefully. I don't think that car use on Ridgewood affects the neighborhood (that I live in) in a meaningful way. I believe the Ridgewood gate needs to remain open regardless (safety issue). The complaints about the music during events are funny to me. The street noise from Ponce is louder than the event noise. True they may not be zoned for those events. Still I would like some objective data that indicates that these events represent a burden. For example some decibel data with and without an event as measured from a residential dwelling.

While the rest of us debate safety, Joe wants to talk about other things. He talks of zoning compliance, noise ordinances, buffers and other issues, and he has "spent many, many hours... trying to work through solutions" as they relate to these tangential issues. From what I can tell, he's not interested in Frazer's mission, he's not interested in safety, and he's definitely not interested in trying to reach a mutually beneficial agreement between Lake Claire neighbors and the Frazer community to the extent that one can be forged. Joe clearly has other issues with Frazer that go beyond the scope of this argument and which should not distract the rest of us from having this debate about safety.

I agree Thisten. There seems to be a contingent (and I believe, majority contingent) of neighbors who truly value Frazer and simply want to explore workable solutions to increase the safety of the streets in a way that does not compromise the Frazer mission.

There also appears to be a very vocal contingent (presumably the folks at the disingenuously named "Lake Claire Info" site, which is not officially affiliated with the neighborhood) who just do not want Frazer in the community. You can spot these folks easily - they will use words and phrases like, "trotting out the disabled and minorities," or refer to the adult services program as a "daycare," or claim to know Frazer's director is a "master at providing partial truths" yet can't even spell his name correctly.

This isn't about Lake Claire at all. Among Lake Claire residents you will find not only Frazer kids and parents, but employees *and* members of their board. Instead this is about those handful of militant, "concerned" homeowners that you find in every neighborhood across this country who seem to live to find things to hem and haw about. I'm sorry, but if you don't like noise or public transportation or any of the other things that come with urban living, go move to Mableton. Frazer, MARTA, Ponce - all this stuff was here before you moved here (indeed, maybe even before you were born).

And if you can quote Dekalb law on permissible decibel levels…well, man, I'll gladly trade my problems for yours.

I think it's pretty clear that the posters here who are sided with TFC are doing so for reasons unrelated to the issues at hand. Namely, sour grapes over APS's decisions and secondly to the 'supposed' lifestyle differences of these 'supposed' new neighbors, like the fact they don't live in a cinder block flat from the '40's.

Moral indignation in most cases is, 2% moral, 48% indignation, and 50% envy.
Vittorio De Sica

Rationalizing poor behavior, rather than face the fact that at every turn, your neighbors choose to act selfishly, irrationally and snobbishly? Those who cannot win on facts often resort to this, so it's understandable that you would.

If there was any doubt about this seeming to be the LC way, the childish statement about envy and assumption that those that don't live in LC must live in a cinder block flat confirms that you just don't get it. (For the record, we are on a half acre, in the city, in a home we custom built in 2006. Our neighbors all have similar lot sizes. Our street has 75 foot setbacks, so our children don't play in the street like children apparently do in some other neighborhoods.)

LC just ain't all that. You cannot walk to restaurants, like CP, you don't have large yards like IP and we know that it isn't a first choice neighborhood for anyone. It's where people live who cannot afford Va-Hi, Morningside or Decatur. For all the lip service neighbors give, nobody sets out to live in LC. The attitude just doesn't match the reality.

I get that there are some lovely people in LC, but think about this: Anyone who is thinking of purchasing a home in your neighborhood is going to read the horrible posts from this and the APS discussion boards and will likely be scared to another neighborhood. Y'all have not been looking good lately.

From Dekalb County Planning regarding having to wait to fix the bridge:
Our goal is to resolve all conflicting issues in the most timely manner. Since bridge is located in the Druid Hills Historic Preservation District, any modifications will require HPC approval. However, the bridge plan can be completed (with HPC approval), and is mutually exclusive and independent of any rezoning issues. I will support any plans to press ahead and get the bridge reconstructed independent of other issues. The bridge reconstruction plan is not “maintenance” and will require engineered design and land development permitting.

Lee Azimi
DeKalb County, Engineering Services

Oh now this is beyond pathetic- classic case of NIMY-ism in the wrong town. I've seen these EXACT neighbors complain on wedding websites and blogs, just to drag down the ratings at CWG. Folks you live in Atlanta, Georgia, less than a mile away from Moreland and Ponce, an intersection known for a man who hangs out on a street corner with a sock in his pants- talk about nuisance. The reality is, as it relates to the event space, you cannot complain about "coming to the nuisance"- it was there as an event space for the last 13+ years, in the same capacity. I find it hard to believe, that even at 70 decibels, a level so low that I cannot hear my music at that level in the upstairs of my home as it plays downstairs, that it could rattle your windows, and cause chaos similar to the birth of rock and roll. In Atlanta, we hear the clanging of CSX, the slam of car doors, the voices of neighbors and day and night, I hear the whizzing of the MARTA train near my house. These are the sounds of Atlanta. Should you want something quieter, might I recommend relocating to the suburbs.

Here is the reality- you are impeding on income potential at CWG. Because of your constant complaining, they've lost me as a customer. Just so you know Joe, who apparently has time to post at 2:00 pm on a Thursday, 60% of my funds went to the Center. Not any more.

Wow! I was curious after reading the comment from Irate Bride and found a review on weddingwire.com from "Woods" dated 9/24/11 that states, in part, as follows:

"The neighbors that border the Frazer Center property are OPPOSED to the OUTDOOR EVENTS being held at the event center in the gardens… they held over 70 events during 2011 with amplified music and unchecked alcohol consumption. For those of us living in the neighborhood, the event center has become a NIGHTMARE… Please out of respect for our community, don't rent this facility!!... There is noise before, during and following events… On more than one occasion over the past years, residents have had to call 911… Please help us get back our peace and tranquility that our neighborhood used to enjoy. During your events we can't use our outdoor spaces of our porches and patios."

At the same site, having scrolled through other posts, what struck me was the fact that there are numerous other positive reviews that state the following or something similar:

“What sold us was the fact that the venue is so private and beautiful and what's more the profits go to a wonderful cause - The Frazier Center.”

“… it made me feel good to know that money was going back into the frazer center.”

“… many guests also appreciated the wedding helped support a great non-profit.”

“The money for the venue is used to support The Frazier Center for special needs students.”

... and on and on. See for yourself.

I have a friend whose adult daughter attends The Frazer Center. They allow a quality of life for handicapped persons that is unsurpassed, as her daughter is able to live at home, and my friend is able to work. She doesn't take that for granted.

Each member of the Lake Claire community voiced their concern was safety, and NOT the handicapped. I believe they were sincere in that. Too many people do not take into consideration the needs of "the least of these", who are gigantic in God's eyes.

My sincere hope is the grown-ups on ALL sides (government, neighbors, and the Center) can work together in obtaining an answer in which all give a little in order to take care of the people (young and old) that are a part of The Frazer Center. It is about them, in the end. .

Well, I've had it. Those of you who have slammed me & my neighbors for having an opinion about what happens in our backyard, you win. Clearly, I have no right to express my valid concerns. Do any of you even live in LC? Wait- don't answer that- I won't be getting your reply.

TO MY NEIGHBORS- I am dedicated to making this work along with all of you. I am glad I signed up on Patch, even if briefly. We can (and will) work this out w TFC w/o the help from the peanut gallery.

It's a sad say when we cannot have an honest, adult dialog. I'm deleting this account. For those of you who clearly have lots of time on your hands, and wish to get in the last word... and I know there are several of you.... go for it. My "weekend" over, and I have an actual job to go back to. Your audience awaits. Adieu.

(enter sound of crickets...)

And to think this all started with people who believed they have a legal right to the view from their backyard, hung banners saying "mind the buffer," let children play in the street (and smoke around them... wonderul parenting), and think they 'own' the street when they live in a CITY not a private community ... and (I heard) slammed a door in the face of a disabled man from the FC delivering holiday cards to neighbors.... sorry, no pity for you. And yes, there are other neighbors who feel this way and know you, too. Just becuase your house borders a property, does not mean you have a right to demand they keep bushes or trees - you bought property that bordered a business. You don't own the land at the Frazier Center, so it's NOT actually your back yard is it? (heat those crickets!) You have tarnished the image of the neighborhood and FC - was setting up a negative website bashing them constructive? Is that how you work togehter? I hope there is a better solution. - signed a LC neighbor who did NOT sign your ridiculous petition circulated by the mommy smoker.

No...I don't live in LC. My concern is one of the adult people who receive services from the Frazer Center.